Episode 15 -Buying & Selling Portfolios with Roofstock

Episode 15 -Buying & Selling Portfolios with Roofstock

Episode 15 With Jason Green

Subscribe to our podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts:


1:44 - Roofstock & Jason's role 3:31 - The nature of portfolio acquisitions 12:20 - Would you see an opportunity to build a portfolio with the idea that you're going to sell? 15:13 - Mistakes to look out for 17:31 - What is attractive about build-to-rent homes 25:09 - How the Roofstock marketplace works for buyers and sellers? 32:10 - Why invest in Atlanta? Contact: [email protected] FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE PODCAST AUDIO:Jason Green: Can you find a good property in Gwinnett County right now? Probably pretty tough to do, but are there what, like 25 other counties in the surrounding, you know, around the circle where there's good opportunities to invest? Yes. Spencer Sutton: Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the Atlanta real estate investor podcast. We are excited to be here with you. I'm one of your hosts, Spencer Sutton, and I've got Matthew Whitaker with me. And today we want to introduce you to Jason Green and Jason works with Roofstock out of California. You know, we were just talking before we pressed record and Jason was telling us a little bit of the things that he does for Roofstock and we've known Jason for quite some time. So Jason, welcome to the show. Jason Green: Thanks for having me guys. It's good to see you. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. Jason, I'm pumped that you're on our relationship with Roofstock goes back a long way when you and Andy walked into our office and told us what y'all were going to do in this company that y'all were going to help build. And I say this every now and then, but there's about three or four people that have actually walked in, sold us a story, and then it actually came true. So congratulations on being on the front end of that and sharing the vision and building, building the story, and building the business behind it. Jason Green: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I mean, I wish we had time to sit back and enjoy, but we still have a lot of work to do, but you know, it's because of great partners like you guys and others that we've got to meet, that all these things and all these moving parts work together. Matthew Whitaker: Talk about what Roofstock is first and then share with everybody what your role is with Roofstock. Jason Green: Yeah. So, you know, at its core, we're an online marketplace for people to buy and sell, you know, investment properties, mainly focused on single family homes. And, you know, our real goal is to kind of separate the operation from the investment, as well as breakdown, kind of a geographical, historic geographical barriers to investing. You know, if you look traditionally, people invested pretty close to home. With, with home prices and a lot of parts of the country where people just can't afford or get access to investing locally. You know, we wanted to kind of flip that upside down so that that's kind of our main customer facing business. We do have some ancillary kind of businesses around that, but, and then as far as what I do, we also kind of broker a lot of larger stabilized portfolios of rental assets. And that's a lot of my day-to-day. And then the last six months kind of this whole build or rent sector or, or portion of the sector is been gaining a lot of steam. And I kind of head up that effort as well. And then out of that, I'm our managing broker in 11 States and run all three of our brokerages and our property management brokerage. Matthew Whitaker: So you have a lot of free time. Spencer Sutton: Well, he's not on the plane as much now, so he does have a little bit more time. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. And that's the thing about Jason. I mean, he is always on a plane somewhere or at least it was pre COVID and any, any conference I would show up, Jason would be there. So you're talking about one of the, well, most well-traveled men in the country. Jason Green: Yeah. I think that's pretty accurate. Matthew Whitaker: Talk about, because those are the two subjects that I wanted to talk about with you is portfolio who's buying the portfolios and then also the builder rent. So we'll get to the build to rent in a second, but talk a little bit about the nature of portfolio acquisitions, how big are these portfolios that are being acquired and who's acquiring. Jason Green: Yeah. And, and it's, it's definitely a wide range. So we try to cover the whole spectrum. You know, we have retail, you know, mom and pop investors buying two or three homes in a portfolio all the way up to, you know, the largest trade we did was in 2017, it was over 8,000 homes in one portfolio across eight different markets. But, you know, we, we have a few ongoing right now that are in the multiple thousand range. So it it's pretty wide spectrum from mom and pop or novice person trying to gain some passive income and invest on the side of their nine to five job. Do you know, I guess wall street, for lack of a better term, who is funding a lot of these public REITs and kind of private SFR operators. Matthew Whitaker: And I know you can't tell who the buyers are that y'all have going on, but I mean, these are, these are larger institutions that are buying these in the thousands. Jason Green: Yeah. And you know, there's been some public releases on some of them. So, you know, like Invitation Homes and Amhurst, and you know, a lot of the, you know, American homes for rent the publicly traded. And then there's a lot of, kind of like middle groups that aren't public, but, you know, are between five and call it 15,000 doors under management capital right now is really cheap. And especially groups with those kind of scale are getting, you know, ridiculously cheap capital. So a lot of those groups that are kind of on the smaller end of the institutional spectrum are aggressively pursuing growth. Matthew Whitaker: When you think about the state of the institutional market, my guess is the Invitation Homes and the Amhurst are kind of at the top. And then there's that kind of next layer of, and can you kind of talk about how that breaks out in your mind when you say, you know, here's the large institutions, here's our medium size. Jason Green: Yeah. I'd say there's like a handful now that are like 20,000 plus doors under management, you know, like your FirstKey's, Amherst's, Tricon's, your American homes for rent or invitation homes. And then kind of in that 5,000 to 15,000, you know, you have your Vine Brooks, your Conrex's. Not public companies, but well scaled institutional capital while capitalized aggressive growth, who may, I don't know, but may end up being publicly traded at some point. So groups that are kind of pursuing, chasing, you know, the others that are already well-established and larger. Matthew Whitaker: And what do you, and I know you can't speak for all of them, but what do you see as these kind of mid tier institutions exit? Are they, are they all trying to become public? Are there some that are trying to flip to some of these bigger institutions? Where, what are their exit strategies? Jason Green: Yeah, I think that's exactly correct. It could go one of two ways they could end up becoming a public vehicle and kind of create a new REIT with a different type of asset class. You know, cause if you talked about a group like buying brick, you know, their portfolio is not looking like an imitation homes portfolio, they're more of a workforce workforce housing portfolio and they can create a Reed vehicle that is a different type of offering than what American homes for rent or Invitation Homes has out there already. So I think that a group like that, it could be very intriguing, but there are certainly others that are probably just building to a certain point. And then we'll exit to one of the other operators or new capital coming into this space. Spencer Sutton: Jason, what is your role in this, in this whole process? Like what is your role, roofstocks role in, in getting these deals done. Jason Green:  When you boil it down, we're acting as a broker in those, a lot of those transactions, usually we're advising on the sell side and running, you know, a full marketing process, collecting bids, you know, helping through the purchase and sale agreement negotiations. We're, we're really A to Z. We have a full transaction team. We handle the title, a lot of it, diligence coordinating inspections. So, you know, we really try to take as much of that load off of both sides as possible, you know, collecting Lisa, you know, all the diligence documents that, you know, creating box or Dropbox making that whole process much simpler is, is a big goal of ours because especially with multiple hundred or multiple thousand transaction, there's a lot, it was a lot of work, a lot of different people involved and having that all coordinated in an effort that makes it easy to track and follow and make sure we're hitting milestones, making sure title's on track. Like, you know, making sure everyone has everything they need for diligence to close we're involved in all of that. All of it. Matthew Whitaker: And kind of the story of Roofstock is that your founder walked into a brokerage and said, Hey, I have all these homes I need to sell. I think it was in the hundreds and the broker couldn't wrap his or her head around how to do that. And, and so I would imagine there's a lot of mom and pop investors out there that might own 50 or a hundred right now they think, Hey, now's the time to sell it. And do they just contact you at Roofstock or do they contact somebody at Roofstock to, for the sell side? Or is there a portfolio that's too small for you to handle? Jason Green: No, no, we, like I said, we, we handled two or three homes at a time, so yeah. They can definitely reach out to me or, or really anyone at rootstock that works with sellers. You know, we we'd love to do an analysis digging in. We, we like to provide as much kind of data and information as we possibly can, you know, advise them on what the best strategy is, you know? Cause we come across homes and portfolios that, you know, we feel like maybe better for owner occupants, you know, cause the homes have appreciated to a certain level that the rental yields don't make sense unless they significantly discount the price of their homes. But yeah, all of that comes into play exit strategy, what their debt structure is. And you know, we like to kind of dig into all of that and provide guidance as best as we can. Matthew Whitaker: Not to focus too much on what you do from like a, to your own horn. But I would think about it from the idea that y'all are experts in selling at scale. And I think of it in terms of, if I had a whole portfolio of rental homes, again, just like your founder, they walk into a, you walk into a broker who's used to selling one off homes or maybe one or two, and then you say, I want to sell 50. That seems like an overwhelming thing that no one's ever done. And I would also imagine you may have some access to some other buyers that maybe a local broker doesn't have. Jason Green: Yeah. You know, our, our buyer pool is specifically investors. So that's our primary focus and investors of all sizes investors that want to buy. Maybe they maybe even their first rental property, you know, all the way up to investors who want to buy thousands of additional rental properties. So our focus is building up that network of investors. So we are a targeted kind of investment firm, you know, whereas if you listed a home on the MLS, you know, you're probably gonna attract owner-occupants who want to move into the home. And you know, when residents are in homes that may not be the best target market. Matthew Whitaker: Where do you see portfolios trading at? I would imagine it varies based on location, but in general, what, what are portfolios currently trading for? Jason Green: Like as a, as a discount to like full market value or... Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. Or maybe even a cap rate or both? Jason Green: Yeah, it really varies like we did, we did a trade in Nashville towards the end of last year and that traded, and those are really nice, like 2,500 rents, you know, 2014 vintage, newer product, good areas, good schools that actually traded sub 5% cap rate and within a couple percentage points of market value, you know, lower rent properties, seven, 800, $900 rent properties. You know, we're probably seeing those trade in the seven to 8% cap rate. And then you, you know, there's kind of a middle ground there. I I'd say most groups are looking for, you know, in the mid vibes, as far as institutional capital retail investors, they tend to be a little all over the place, but probably looking for a little more on there just cause their debt's more expensive. Matthew Whitaker: So I'm going to give you a hypothetical and you may or may not want to answer it and we can cut this out. But if you are a local investor in some of these more investible markets like Atlanta, would you see an opportunity to build a portfolio with the idea that you're going to sell it to one of the smaller ones? Jason Green: Yeah. A hundred percent. And we've worked with some local investors who have specifically gone out to do that, you know, accumulated homes over a period of 10 or 15 years, kind of knowing what characteristics in, what kind of geography within those markets are attracting other capital sources and have gone about and build the portfolio that way. Certainly if I was still running a day-to-day investment fund like I did previously, that that would probably be in my business plan. Matthew Whitaker: I think that people need to understand what the, these mid-size funds are, are building scale with the idea that they're going to sell to the, to the big boys. But you can do that on a smaller scale. You can put together 25 or 50 homes over the course of a couple of years. And is it fair to say that you can confidently say that their money is not going to run out anytime soon, most of these funds? Jason Green: There is, you know, most of these groups have for lack of a better term, endless capital. And there is, there is a new source of funds coming into this space, you know, weekly, you know, we're having those conversations every week funds from other countries funds from all over the world. Matthew Whitaker: So Conrex raised $300 million to buy houses and then Invitation homes just raised a billion. Jason Green: Yeah. Tricon just raise more money. Yeah. Matthew Whitaker: There's, there's plenty of money pouring in here. Jason Green: Yeah. To your point, it's not only a thousand homes, that's going to get their interest. Like we've done 19 home deals with some of these institutional groups. Like it doesn't have to be 300 homes for them to be interested right now. You know, if you're working with Amherst, you're probably not going to get to like Keith Ramston for 15 homes. Like there are folks on their acquisitions team who spend all day, every day trying to buy 10, 15, 20 homes. So, you know, I definitely would preach that as like, you don't have to have 300 homes to work with one of those groups, like they're buying one-offs, they're buying 10, they're buying 15, they're buying them however they can take them. Matthew Whitaker: I've seen personally seen two different smaller funds that are around 50 homes each cell in the last couple of years. So I've it happen? And I think it would be a good strategy for somebody that had the wherewithal to go out and accumulate these rental. Jason Green: Yeah, yeah, exactly. If you're a local operator and you have the ability to acquire them and renovate them to a good standard and kind of get them performing and kind of build a nice little package, like I think that can be a good business model. Matthew Whitaker: That is a great question. Followup would be, what do I need to watch out for if I wanted to do that strategy, what are these big funds look for? So I don't make a mistake. Jason Green: Yeah. So they, they are focused heavily on major systems. So where we see sellers getting hurt is where they haven't kept the homes up to a certain standard. The roofing, the plumbing, the windows, the, the HVAC, the electrical. Those groups are hyper-focused on providing like a good living experience. And they do tend to, even if there's nothing broken, they do tend to allocate those funds to go upgrade those items. So if you're bringing a deal to one of those groups and you have not done all of those things, they are going to discount their price and budget for that work to be done. You know, having, having vinyl like Lowy windows and like certain things you just wouldn't think are a necessity for a rental property, they are going to go do even your workforce housing operators like Buying Broke, they are going to go do that on every home. It's their standard. It's, it's what they're marked against. Probably what they've pitched their investors, who are investing in their fund is like every home we have is going to have this quality. So it's something they're held to as well and probably their debt covenants. So I've seen people kind of skimp on those things like, well, the residents living there, it's fine right? Like, and they are going to hit you on their bid if they have to go out and do those items. Spencer Sutton: Are there any instances where they would look at properties and say, there's just too much work to do. Like, Hey, we're not, we're not interested because the rehab is going to be 20,000 or 25,000 or they are they okay with that or will they just discount the price? Jason Green: Yeah, generally, generally they need inventory. However, they can get it. Where I have seen groups shy away is like foundation issues and like kind of structural damage, just cause that's a little more of an unknown. And even if you do fix it properly, it still can have kind of ongoing ongoing issues. And that's, that's definitely a focus in Texas, you know, just with the solid all there's more foundation problems. So we have seen groups kind of, even if it's only like a $20,000 to $25,000 rehab, including $5,000 to $6,000 in foundation repair, we've still seen groups shy away from acquiring some of those homes. Matthew Whitaker: I want to just pivot now and talk about build to rent. And this is something that's happened new. In other words, there wasn't enough inventory out there for them to find rental homes so now they're going out and building rental homes almost like they would an apartment community. And talk a little bit about how this has morphed over the last couple of three years. I remember being at a conference with you in Phoenix, I think two Decembers ago. And it was kind of the newest rage. And I didn't know if it was going to be a fad and it appears to be here to stay. So talk a little bit about the build to rent world. Jason Green: It's been unbelievable, like, like you said, two or three years ago, it was a hot conversation, but it didn't necessarily feel like it was happening real time. It felt a little more theoretical than anything. And I'd say within the last six months it's fully exploded. Like three years ago, people would buy closeouts from 1R or DR Horton. At the end of the quarter, the sales guy would call up, you know, the institutional groups like, "Hey, can you buy 20 homes for me for me", that's not built for rent because those were built as owner occupant homes that just happened to sell to an investor. But now we're seeing, you know, groups building fully contained rental communities of a hundred, 200 plus homes, which I don't feel like it was necessarily happening at scale three years ago. And we're even seeing groups getting in as early as buying raw land and developing it and entitling it, permitting it and building it. Jason Green: And you know, some of those can be two or three year timelines to actually have a stabilized product. But I think what a lot of the groups have realized is there is not enough existing inventory available for them to spend the capital they have committed to them. So groups are now exploring, getting out there much earlier and they think they can build, you know, their yield on cost is actually probably going to be higher if they are willing to take a little bit of that development risk. And then you're providing brand new product. You know, your RNM should be pretty low. Most builders are gonna warranty a lot of the major structural, you know, with a two and 10 warranty. So we'll see, I think it'll take a few years to prove out, like if those homes are operating more efficiently with less RNM and less maintenance, but it's definitely real time happening where groups are actually acquiring land and having builders build on it for them to build, you know, full and monetize community. Matthew Whitaker: It's basically like an apartment community. So they're building a shared space, maybe with a pull 200 to 300 homes. Are they doing the kind of lawn maintenance on these? How does all that work? Jason Green: I've seen him different. But I think generally, especially if the group is going to own it for the long haul, they want all that built into the HOA, just so they can keep a consistent, clean look throughout the community, which I think is important because you know, these neighborhoods are getting a premium price for rentals, but yeah, it's, you know, they're, they're calling it like horizontal multifamily now. It's Where you have a leasing center. You know, if you're at 200 units, you're probably going to have, on-site leasing, you know, a clubhouse, a pool, a dog park, you know, all those things that would attract a wide variety of a resident base. And, you know, you're seeing it explode in markets like Phoenix and markets like Dallas. We're doing deals actively in Birmingham, Atlanta, Nashville, the Carolinas, Florida. So I mean, it's happening in a lot of different markets. Spencer Sutton: And are these houses typically more efficient houses, smaller houses, the three two/s, kind of the garden home type houses kind of sticking to, Hey, we know that these will sell to a certain at a certain price point, certain range. Jason Green: I've seen different in Phoenix, like next Metro and other Christopher Todd and other groups are doing it. It feels more like a multifamily. It's more of like a site condo. And I think it's very market dependent. We're seeing a lot of townhomes style developments too, but then there are ones that are fully just like detached single family communities. If you drove through it, you would think it was a for sale community. It looks and feels almost like entirely the same. And, and then as far as like what the models are looking like, you know, that's a little dependent too, in Atlanta. For instance, they have some pretty interesting rules on like elevations and how many different floor plans you have to have in each community. So we're typically seeing like four or five different floor plans mixed throughout the community from three starting out of three to, you know, going all the way up to like a four, two and a half, over 2000 square feet. So keeping a wide range, townhome, the townhome developments we've seen, they're mostly three, two and a half, like 14, 1500 square feet. Some will have like plus a loft or plus a fourth bedroom. But yeah, that, that's what we're seeing on the townhome side, like 14 to 1600 home den office is becoming a big one in some of the new floor plans I've seen at home workspace. They're making sure to highlight that and floorplans. Matthew Whitaker: I think that's, what's driving a lot of the single family demand right now is moving out of multi-family because you might need more space for a home office. Jason Green: Yeah. Yeah. I'm on my dining room tables. Matthew Whitaker: What drives the people that are going to live in a build to rent home? Like why wouldn't these people go by home of their own? What are, what are the desires that you're seeing from the resident base? Jason Green: And it's funny, cause I think they're hitting both ends of the spectrum. I think you're seeing, you know, kind of my parents' generation are cashing out of their residences and downsizing and for them, are they going to go live in an apartment? Are they going to go buy a new house? I think having a brand new rental home in a nice community is attractive to them. And then, you know, the younger generation or, you know, you want to call them millennials or whatever you want. They don't want to be tied down maybe anecdotal, but I kind of feel the same way. And I actually fall in that cohort of age bracket is, you know, a lot of them watched their parents lose everything in 2008, losing their homes, you know, and are, I guess, scared of that commitment to a 30 year mortgage and kind of being tied to a place, you know, forever. And the flexibility of being able to live in a brand new community with everything they would want is attracted to them. And then, you know, if they decided to move to another town or relocate, it's a pretty simple out. You know, you have a year lease and, and you have flexibility beyond that point. Spencer Sutton: You don't have any maintenance. Jason Green: Yeah. That's another one, especially if you're including the lawn maintenance and all that. There is no work, you know to be had, no upkeep, you know, it's all pretty well covered. Matthew Whitaker: Yeah. They're passionate about their weekends, the millennials, and want to go and do things on the weekends instead of stay home, like probably our parents' generation and fix stuff. I work I'm kind of caught in the middle of generations. So sometimes I'll stay home and fix stuff and sometimes I'm ready to just go. But, but that the younger folks right now don't care about fixing things, they just want to go and do and have experienc. Jason Green: Yeah. I think the flexibility fits well into their lifestyle choices. It's a place to live. That's nicer and has more space than an apartment. And then it has the dog park and all the things they want, you know, as far as the way they live their lifestyle. Matthew Whitaker: I want to circle back around to Roofstock and kind of the core business, because I think we'd be remissed in not talking about it for a few minutes. The whole idea is that you've created an efficient marketplace for investors. So somebody might be listening to this from and want to buy their first rental house and they can get on your platform and see rental houses from all over the country in different markets. And same goes for a seller. If you have a rental house or two, that's not a portfolio and you want to sell it on the roofstock marketplace, you can do that. So talk about the, the buyers and the sellers and how the marketplace works so that people can come and take a look at it. Jason Green: Yeah. And what I love about it is like, look, even if you don't end up purchasing a property on Roofstock, which obviously would be our preference, you get a good snapshot of over 30 plus States in the country and kind of what investment properties look like in those markets. Like what are some metrics like, how does the underwriting look? What are the school's scores? Like, there's a lot of important data that I think a lot of people didn't have access to and kind of putting it all in one place for folks to be able to see. And then, you know, when you talk about, Hey, am I really going to buy this? Well, I need a lender. I need a property manager. I need insurance. We have all that too. So we're really trying to make it simpler. Like you said and kind of put all those pieces in one place, make the process a lot more seamless. Jason Green: And like I said, we still have a lot of work to do. We've we've done a lot in five years, but you know, a lot more to do. But I think even if you don't plan on buying, you're just like an exploratory mode. Like what better place to get a good snapshot of like what properties look like in different areas, as opposed to you searching around on Google for hours, trying to figure it out or calling brokers and all these markets and like, "Hey, start sending me listening". He was like, Hey, why not go get a glimpse of what's going on? And I could look at Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Charlotte, Birmingham, you know, we, we just got licensed in Colorado. I know we talked about that a couple months ago or I should say I just got licensing in Colorado. Matthew Whitaker: I did too. So we have that in common. Jason Green: Yeah. So, you know, Texas, you can get a really good glimpse of like all these different locations and what investment returns look like and what the inventory looks like. And then as far as sellers, you know, what I like about it is, you know, a it's light touch on your residents like B there's no open houses, there's no people coming to show it. You know, you're really outside of an inspection and, you know, an appraisal, if the buyer's using financing, we're really trying not to disturb your resident, which I think is important. You know? Cause you know, they have the right to enjoy that property. And you know, they're under lease terms and our buyers are looking to keep those residents in place because they want the cash flows. So, you know, especially mom and pop landlords that, you know, build a relationship with their residents. Jason Green:  I think it's important for them to know that like we're selling to investors who aren't just going to go kick your resident out that you've had in there for 10 years, you know, they want the resident, they want the cashflow. And I think it's a less friction way to sell your investment property. Or if you need to get liquidity and you're like, well, my resident has eight months left on their lease. I have to wait. I have to wait until they move out to sell it. It's like, well, no, you don't. Spencer Sutton: You don't have to. Jason Green: It's an asset now. And people didn't look at single family as an asset 10 years ago. I was like, well, I have to wait to vacate it because it's only an asset. If someone wants to move into it, like, well, no, it's an asset. If someone's living there paying rent and it's cash flowing. So I think that conversation has really starting to change. Spencer Sutton: Yeah. And it's a, it's a nationwide conversation, right? Because 10 years ago, 15 years ago when Matthew and I were wholesaling houses, it was really very local. Right. So it was very local. Now you have eyes from around the country, which is what you all do so well. And I'll just tell you from my experience, like I have friends who are selling houses through the roofstock platform and I've spoken with many, many investors over the past several years who have used Roofstock and it really has been a very seamless transition, very easy transaction for them to do so I've just heard nothing but good reports. Jason Green: Well, yeah, I appreciate that. It's, it's a lot of work, but you know, we have some exciting things coming up too that I think we will give buyers and sellers more and transparency into the process. I know there's places where we've come up short and you know, we're very cognizant of those things and always working to improve the platform as well. Matthew Whitaker: And I come up short all the time. So one thing I think is important to note just in terms of how everything is processed, that's a little bit different is you do the inspection on the front end. In other words, before they list a property with you, they go through the inspection process. So that's a little bit different. And so everything on your platform for a buyer has already been inspected. And if you are a seller, you need to know that before you get listed, you're going to be required to do an inspection and you may have to fix some things. But the whole idea is that all the diligence, this institutionalized diligence, and I think that's important to note too, for people is you're basically giving people access to the data. Five, six, seven years ago was only institutional data because some of the background of your founders is in buying these portfolios and putting these funds together. So I think kind of in the new age technology age, you're getting the opportunity to have access to data that you never would have had in the past. And so just understanding the mechanics of the sale are important just to kind of relieve some anxiety over, you know, what's going to happen if I list my home with Roofstock. Jason Green: Yeah. And that that's critical to us too, is kind of democratizing the access to back institutional level data and information and making it available to everyone. And yeah, like, like you said, you are, while everyone you work with at Roofstock may not come from the institutional world, like folks like myself, Chris Willard, Andy Boyum who's no longer with us, when people that have helped build this platform are people that have been out there buying thousands of homes, you know, going through this process, understanding how to invest in different markets. Like we are the people that are kind of helping lead the charge and have a lot of experience in the space and we're, you know, deep down that's all we really want is to give that information to everyone and make, make that investment possible for people who always thought like, well, 'I'll never be able to invest in real estate. I don't have, it's not a full-time gig for me. It's too daunting. I don't have the information I feel that would make me comfortable'. You know, that's kind of all part of our mission. Matthew Whitaker: So for my last question, Jason, what I would really like to know is why would somebody invest in Atlanta? Jason Green: I love the economy in Atlanta, very diverse, a lot of major companies that are headquartered there, to name a few like Delta and Coca Cola and TBS and there's others. There's plenty of others. When you look at the last handful of years, you look at population growth and in migration consistently in the top 5 or 10 across the country. And while some would say, it's been saturated by institutional ownership, you know, it is the largest institutional SFR market, but they only own like 4% share of all the rental properties in the entire market. So I think that can be a bit misleading when you say it's saturated. It's like, well, that to me still says, there's a lot of opportunity there and it's a big, big MSA two. It spreads pretty wide and far, almost every direction. So can you find a good property in Gwinnette County right now? Probably pretty tough to do, but are there what, like 25 other counties in the surrounding, you know, around the circle where there's good opportunities to invest? Yes. Spencer Sutton: All right, everybody. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Atlanta real estate investor podcast. Now, Jason, if people want to get in touch with you, if they want to talk about buying portfolios, selling portfolios, what's the best way to reach you. Jason Green: So I'm not a big social media guy, but you can obviously find me on LinkedIn or it's just [email protected]. Spencer Sutton: All right. Well thank you, Jason. This has been great. And I would just want to encourage everybody. If you listened to this podcast, you found it helpful. Go ahead and leave us a five star review. Share it with your friends. All right, everybody. So thanks. And we will see you on the next episode.